Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)

Central discussion page of Wikipedia for general topics not covered by the specific topic pages

For many years I've been an editor focused mostly on improving existing articles rather than writing new articles. In particular I like to do a lot of the dirty, unglamorous work of checking references and improving them. One thing I've come to believe is that references without specific pages and quotes are half-useless. For one, because our articles are in continual flux, over time references tend to drift way from the sentences they support. BUT it's practically impossible to notice this unless you are absurdly familiar with the reference. Another problem is that people are really bad at keeping meaning the same when rewording statements. Many times I check a reference, spending the time to track down the specific text, only to discover "hey, the Wikipedian either didn't understand the text or distorted its meaning". Very very few editors are checking references once they are inserted. The page and quote parameters dramatically help solve these problems. It makes it MUCH less time consuming to check a source. AND at an instant, all editors can check that the Wikipedia text aligns with the meaning of the source text. In my opinion, we need to get all editors to agree to ALWAYS use the page and quote parameters if possible. The only time they should not be used is when it doesn't make sense because the Wikipedia statements are a synthesis of what's said in a much larger body of text. Jason Quinn (talk) 03:08, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

Where did you get that idea from? It's totally untrue. If you don't believe me, take the US Copyright Office's word for it:

Under the fair use doctrine of the U.S. copyright statute, it is permissible to use limited portions of a work including quotes, for purposes such as commentary, criticism, news reporting, and scholarly reports. There are no legal rules permitting the use of a specific number of words, a certain number of musical notes, or percentage of a work. Whether a particular use qualifies as fair use depends on all the circumstances. See, Fair Use Index, and Circular 21, Reproductions of Copyrighted Works by Educators and Librarians.

Hello, just a reminder that all editors are invited to provide feedback on the nominations to serve on the 2021 Arbitration Committee Electoral Commission until 23:59, 15 October 2021 (UTC). Thank you, — xaosflux Talk 08:24, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Voting to elect members to the Movement Charter drafting committee is now open. In total, 70 Wikimedians are running for 7 seats in these elections.

We are piloting a voting advice application for this election. It helps show which candidates hold positions similar to the choices entered.

According to the set up process, the committee will initially consist of 15 members in total. 7 members elected in this process, 6 members selected by Wikimedia affiliates, and 2 members appointed by the Wikimedia Foundation. Up to 3 additional members may be appointed by the committee, and steps may be taken to replace members as needed.

Please feel free to let me know if you have any questions about this process.

Xeno (WMF) (talk) 17:15, 12 October 2021 (UTC) (Movement Strategy & Governance Team, Wikimedia Foundation)

← As a gentle reminder, the voting period is about halfway through, and will be closing about 6 days from now. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 13:15, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

I still remember the days you all drafted Lil Nas X album. The editors say the album article should be drafted until there's an official announcement. While we all know Lil Nas X has already revealed the tracklist, it's still drafted WHILE the editors don't do the same to Adele's album. Now she only reveals the title AND its article has already been released. What's wrong with Wikipedia editors? Racism? Or homophobia? Should I complain Mr. Jimbo to solve this internalized homophobic/racism behaviour? -GogoLion (talk) 14:26, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Fram, You talk like I didn't know there was any discussion before drafting. The Adele's album already discussed. YES IT EXISTS. But what the editors do? They want to keep it. Why? Because she is white. Yup, white and straight. And what about drafting discussion of the Lil Nas X's album? Did it exist? If it exists, what the editors say? Why they draft it? Why they don't accept official announcement from the artist (Lil Nas X, the black gay man)? Why you don'think this is not racism/homophobia? Can you explain? Where's the drafting discussion of Lil Nas X's album? -GogoLion (talk) 16:06, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

LivelyRatification what's good? -GogoLion (talk) 16:35, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Little to no idea why I was involved in this conversation but, sure, I'll give my two cents. Yes, systemic bias is a thing. Wikipedia in general is biased towards the Western industrialised world. If you're a white straight man you're much more likely to be viewed as notable than a black queer woman. That bias should very much be acknowledged and tackled. But from what I'm aware, the situation with the Montero draft article is that it simply didn't have enough detail to actually be reviewed.
As a fellow user said on Montero's talk page, "I agree that this album is plenty notable (possibly one of the most anticipated albums of the year, in fact)—but not enough of that coverage has been included in this draft yet, hence why it's yet not an article. A number of the Twitter and other primary sources need to be replaced first before it can be moved to the mainspace."

LivelyRatification, so people drafted the Lil Nas X album because they use Twitter for reference? This is weird... Look at Adele discography, they using Instagram as reference for Easy On Me but nobody cares about "is it acceptable or not?". Also, Lil Nas X's announcement also had official announcement from acceptable sources (one of them is ) but the editors still make it as draft until it really been released. -GogoLion (talk) 21:05, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

I'm doing some research for something. Interested in knowing where the conventions came from, when we ditched horizontal rules in favor of level-2 headings, and so on. I recall reading something about this years ago, but of course can't find it. Enterprisey (talk!) 08:07, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi all. I'm posting here as a co-curator of the 'Sister projects' track for WikidataCon 2021, which will take place online on 29-31 October 2021. The conference website is at .

Integration with Wikidata is a controversial topic here, and we would like to talk about both the pros and cons of Wikidata integration with the other Wikimedia projects during this conference. Whether you like Wikidata or not, please consider submitting a session proposal to explore the issues that you are most interested in.

You can find information about how to submit a session proposal at , and you can access the submission form at . Please submit a session proposal through the Pretalx process so that we can review and schedule it appropriately - and make sure to mark it as a 'Sister projects' track proposal. Please note that we cannot accept a session outside of the Pretalx process. We also encourage you to submit talks to other tracks if you are interested!

Note that the deadline for submitting proposals is the 20th October - sorry for the short notice! Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:44, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Communities typically block edits from IP addresses that obscure individual users. Usually, it has been about “open proxies” or virtual private networks (VPNs). Now, there's a new Apple service called iCloud Private Relay that obscures the IP addresses of desktop and mobile users of the Safari browser.

As Apple users adopt this new service, we estimate that 3-5% of all logged-in and logged-out editors will have these obscured IP addresses. If we don't change anything, they may be blocked within a few months. This wiki may be severely affected. A lot of people editing here use the Safari browser. Next, other browser providers may do the same. The problem will grow.

The communities, users with advanced MediaWiki permissions, the Wikimedia Foundation and others need to work together. We all need to decide how the security of the wikis can be maintained. At the same time, the pathways to editing should remain open for all good-faith participants.

Read more on Apple iCloud Private Relay. Answer the questions and comment on its talk page.

Movement Strategy Implementation Grants have been re-launched to support Movement Strategy plans

Movement Strategy Implementation Grants provide resources and support for implementing strategy plans and ideas. The Movement Strategy and Governance team is available to provide support. Learn more. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 15:53, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

"Movement Strategy Implementation Grants support projects that take the current state of a Movement Strategy Initiative and push it one step forward. This way, all initiatives are implemented collectively one step at a time, from research and planning to development and launch. " That... doesn't really make sense. If you want to "collectively" implement them one step at a time, then all initiatives first need to take step 1, then all need to take step 2, and so on. However, the grants are for one initiative at a time. So, which is it? Fram (talk) 16:02, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

We, the team working on the Community Wishlist Survey, would like to invite you to an online meeting with us. It will begin on on Zoom, and will last an hour. .

The meeting will not be recorded or streamed. Notes without attribution will be taken and published on Meta-Wiki. The presentation (all points in the agenda except for the questions and answers) will be given in English.

We can answer questions asked in English, French, Polish, Spanish, German, and Italian. If you would like to ask questions in advance, add them on the Community Wishlist Survey talk page or send to

Natalia Rodriguez (the Community Tech manager) will be hosting this meeting.

We hope to see you! SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 23:00, 22 October 2021 (UTC)